Telling An Effective Story
Ben Baker
Your Brand Marketing
Over the last 25 years I have helped my clients tell their stories. Enabling them to communicate not only what they do, but why the do it, for whom and enabling those who listen to understand the value to them.
Currently, we work with large to enterprise-level companies to help them tell their story effectively inside their organization. To stem the tide of the great resignation, dismantle silos and create better and more aligned teams who believe in the mission, vision and value of the company.
www.yourbrandmarketing.com
www.communicateyourwhy.com
www.podcasthostforhire.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/yourbrandmarketing/
www.youtube.com/gettingyounoticed
www.yourbrandmarketing.com/ebooks
www.marlanasemenza.com
Audio : Ariza Music Productions
Transcription : Vision In Word
Marlana: Over the past 25 years, Ben Baker has helped his clients tell their stories, enabling them to communicate not only what they do, why they do it, for whom, and enabling those who listened to understand the value to them. Welcome, Ben!
Ben: Hey! Marlana. Thank you for having me on the show. It is a pleasure talking to you again.
Marlana: Well, so let's talk about telling an effective story. Because we all know that we need to tell our story. But how do we make it effective? Where do we even start?
Ben: Well, the one thing we need to first understand is, our story's not about us. It's about the people that we affect. And it's about getting people to listen to us to understand the value to them and compelling them to engage or to act or whatever we want them to do. And it's about bringing them into the story, getting them to see it from their first point of view, getting them to understand how that story relates to them. And they can stick a Oh, okay, I haven't done this. But yeah, I've done something similar. And I can see how that relates to this. And all of a sudden, they internalize it, and when they internalize it, they can recall it. And they can retell it in their own words. And that's when the story becomes powerful. But when all we do is make it, I did this, and I did that, and I did the everything. Nobody cares. It's like, Yoh! I woke up, I made a million dollars, and I retired. Who cares? Tell me the story that went along with it. And tell me the lessons you learned and make it relevant to me. And I'm going to care about it.
Marlana: So then, what are some good starting points for us?
Ben: I think the first thing you do is understand who your audience is, because your story is your story. I mean, let's look at a corporate story. You know, your brand marketing started 15 years ago, we started for specific reason, you know, we had specific challenges, we had an idea, we had customers, it evolved, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And here we are today. And you know, we can get into that story. But that's what's relevant. I'm going to tell the story differently to you, as I'm going to tell it differently to a CEO, as I'm going to tell it to an operations manager, a technology officer, whoever, because they care about different things. And we need to make it relevant to the person and sit there say, okay, what are the analogies that I'm going to use that are relevant to this audience that that's in front of me, you know, how am I going to make this to a point where they're sitting up and go, Oh, I get that. And telling that story differently to different people, is what makes it relevant. The theme is the same, the lessons are the same. But you know, sometimes you can make it shorter, sometimes you can make it longer. Sometimes you can have more detail, sometimes less. Sometimes you're going to use, you know, this analogy instead of that. But you know, the goal is to sit there and say, Okay, who is this person? What do they care about? What's important to them? What's their frame of reference? Okay, now let's tell the story in a way that's going to be relevant to them and get them nodding.
Marlana: And, you know, I love all that, because even when it comes to photographs, I think people don't realize how important it is to know your audience and what they need to know. And tailor your message and your images because it all wraps into one package to tell an effective story. And the other thing too, I think a lot of people don't realize the importance of drilling down to tell that story. Because let's face it, the internet is a crowded, noisy arena. And you can walk into it and zillion people are all shouting at the same time. And the only way that you're going to get your message heard by the right people is to basically I'm going to say call them by name. Not that you're necessarily naming them. But if I walk towards you, and I keep saying a message that relates to you, it's in effect, calling your name. And so that way, I'm moving toward you and I'm directing it towards you. And eventually not only will you hear it, but your sphere of influence will also hear it
Ben: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I mean, first of all, your pictures tell amazing stories.
Marlana: Oh! Thank you!
Ben: And how I deal visualize those stories and how another person visualizes those stories. It's different, and how we emotionally connect to start. And I'm sure there's images that I look at it. Oh, yeah, that's okay. And there's pictures I look at they go wow! That's cool. But somebody else is going to have the complete opposite effect. And that's what's really neat, is that, you know, our stories will affect different people in different ways. Now, let's get back to the crowded effect of the internet. And what it is, doesn't matter if it's internet, it doesn't matter if it's, you know, creating an ad, or a TV, commercial or whatever, you're only going to affect the people that you can affect. Their 7.5 billion people in this world. If you can affect 1/10 of 1% of the world, you've done an amazing job. And you could probably be a billionaire. You know if you could affect and have 1/10 of 1% of the world. So, there we go… Oh my God! Marlana is amazing! I need to buy everything that I'm highlighting is God, yo, I'm just gonna send her money. And I'll worry about when this stuff appears, you're gonna do extremely well. So, it's about understanding, first of all, who your audience is, and mostly who they're not. Because there are the vast majority of the people in the world 99.9% of those people could care less about you, could care less about your product, could care less about your story, could care less about that, because you can't help them, or they don't perceive you can help them. And you'll The trick is to find the people that are part of your tribe, and the Seth Godin is you'll find your tribe, find your Minimal Viable audience, find the people that are passionate about the things that you're passionate about, see the value that you bring to the table. And those are the people that will retell your story for you.
Marlana: What about the people that say, Well, I serve everyone, or I have something for everyone. But we'll just say,
Ben: let me be blunt, everybody with a heartbeat, and a Visa card is not your client. When you have that mentality that I serve everyone that I can be everyone to everybody, you're no one to know what, you know, it's realizing that you'll be valuable to not be a commodity, to not be one of many to be a quote on a page, you know, to be the person that people sit there go, Marlana, you know, I know you're $10,000 more than the other photographer, but I don't care, I need you, you're speaking to a very specific audience, and sit there going, these are the people that I can serve. These are the people I add value to, these are the people that I can help. And everybody else Hey, listen, if you want to read my content on LinkedIn, fill your boots. But I know you're never gonna buy from me, and I'm not going to pay a lot attention to you. Because I know you are not the people that are going to see the value in what I do. If all you are is a commodity, you are easily replaced, you are easily forgotten. And eventually, all you are is another quote three, and maybe you're going to win it on price. Maybe you're not the next time somebody is going to be cheaper. And you're going to be out.
Marlana: Yeah, it's so important not to get involved in that race to the bottom. And I think a lot of people are afraid to hear no, because they take it as a rejection. And it's really not a rejection. It's somebody has eliminated themselves. Either you didn't communicate your value, or they have eliminated themselves for the Yes. So, let's dive into the you haven't communicated your value, right? How do we do that effectively?
Ben: It's interesting, because when I first started off in sales 30 or 35 years ago, I worked for Xerox, and they give you a mentor. When you walk in, you get it, you get a sales mentor, somebody who walks through and says this is Ben, you need to know the difference between now and not now. No means you know what? We don't need this. You'll think and it's those people. Thank you very much. Thank you for not wasting my time. I appreciate it. Now I can focus on somebody else. The not now may sound like a no, but what it is you haven't given them enough reason to say yes. And it's a matter of being able to dive down and realize, wait a second here. Can I truly help these people? And have I not done a good enough job myself? To give them reason to say yes because it's easy for people to say no. It's easy. Peoples just say, You know what, I've got too much on my plate. There's too much going on. I don't have time to deal with it. I don't have my bandwidth. I've got 1000 Other things on my plate. Yeah, I don't want to look at this. No. And that's easy. But the question is, have you given people reason to sit? There's got lazy, that could help me. I don't have time for this right now. But that could help me. I'm willing to listen a little bit more. I don't I'm not saying yes right now, but that can help. And it's a matter of telling that story and you can't tell your story just once. You need to be able to tell it over and over and over again in ways and little drips, people let people sit there go, oh, oh, oh. Oh, okay. And you know, that's the trick is to be able to, you'll realize what have you missed telling somebody that could be that one relevant piece of information that helps them say yes. And you know what, that's far less about talking? And far more about listening?
Marlana: When we are dealing with people on the internet, how do we effectively listen to them?
Ben: You know, I am a big believer of I spend an enormous amount of time reading other people's posts and responding to other people's posts. It's not just plugging my stuff and just say there, here's another post by Ben, here's another post by Ben, here's the only post by Ben, I do that daily, every single day, I put thought content on the world. And guess what, I'm one of less than 5% of the of the world that does that. So, when you do that, when you actually are putting consistent thought practices out there, you're differentiating yourself. However, the big thing is to be able to sit there and look at people's posts of people that you know, and people that you don't know, reading through their posts and sit there go, wait a second here. I can add value here. It's not another me to type comment, or Yeah, yeah, that's cool, or whatever. It's like, you don't What have you thought of things this way. Or, you know, what, I had some experience with this, and this is what I learned. Or, you know, what I'd like, you know, don't shoot the messenger. But this is, you know, this is what I've seen. And I really don't think you're looking at the right way. And this is why. And if we can create intelligent conversation by listening to the other person first reading their stuff, and referencing back to it, instead of just slamming them on the internet, you know, what we're gonna gain their respect. And all of a sudden, they're just figuring Who is this Ben Baker, he feels over the last month, he I don't know who this person is. But they've responded to about 10 of my posts, maybe I should go look at their profile, maybe I should find out who they are. And all of a sudden, this person starts commenting on your posts, all of a sudden, this person starts sharing your information, all of a sudden, this person starts wanting to connect with you and say, um, Ben, do you have 30 minutes that we can pick up a phone and have a conversation? And, you know, that takes work? It takes effort, it takes caring. And that's the big thing today is nobody cares anymore. Everybody is out for themselves. Everybody's looking for the quick buck everybody's looking for how can I do this easy to do social media? Well, it's hard. It takes effort. And it takes consistency. And it takes real, baring your soul to some degree. And the people that are willing to do that are going to build some incredible relationships that are going to turn into some very serious work. But if all you're doing is, you know, doing drive bys, quick, quick hits and leaving. Nobody's gonna pay attention to you because you're not paying attention to that.
Marlana: And you know, you hit on something. Because at the end of the day, that's exactly what we're doing, we are building relationships. And if you those take time, any good ones take time. And if you are not looking at it in that regard, and not putting the time into it, you're already fighting an uphill battle, because you're just not going to get where you hope to get.
Ben: Yeah. I mean, you and I met on LinkedIn. We met on the day; I don't remember how; I don't remember when. It's been a while; it's been well over. I mean, I think it's pre COVID, you and I met. So, I mean, that's how we measure times, you know, pre COVID After Covid. But we've had an enormous number of conversations, both online and offline. And you've shared stuff of mine, I've shared stuff of yours. You've commented on my stuff, I've commented on yours. We've built a level of trust. And that doesn't come overnight. I mean, I tell people that trust takes time to build. It's easily broken. And it's really, really hard to fix once that trust is broken. So, we need to sit there and say forget about the 10th out I mean, yeah, okay, I've got 10,000 people on my LinkedIn profile, who cares? I've got maybe 200 people that I truly connect with on a very regular basis, though, those are my gold standard. Those are the platinum people. Those are the people that I pay attention to on a regular basis, and they pay attention to me. You can't do that. 10,000 people if this is your relationships and that kind of stuff. Just don't scale. And it's those 200 people that give me all my work that give me all my connections, that give me all, you know, that are the people that share a know, like and trust thing. And by concentrated on those people, that's how I've made a living, and now I built relationships.
Marlana: So, what if we aren't quite sure what our story is? How do we start to dive into that? Because, you know, I've encountered so many people, even with what I do that say, Well, I'm just like everybody else, or I don't really have a story. And, you know, part of my job is to mine down into it a little bit. But how do you do it?
Ben: Yeah, first of all, everybody's got a story. Your six-year-old has a story, your six-year-old story is much shorter, far more condensed and a lot simpler than somebody who's 95 years old. Because they just don't have the tapestry. They don't have the years, they don't have the mileage, they don't have the scars. But we all have a reason that we do what we do. You know, I authored a book in 2018, called Powerful Personal Brands, a Hands-on Guide to Understanding Yours. And it's all about understanding who you are, what you do, and why you do it. And at the end of every chapter, I asked a question, and I leave two pages of line boats for people to write their own question, you know, the right answers. You know, but really, it's about understanding, why do you do what you do? What do you care about? You know, if you were going to see one movie 100 times, what would that movie be? And why? Who were the three teachers that you had? You know that that influenced you growing up through high school? And what did they really teach you? Never mind that they were math, social science, and chemistry? What did they really teach you? You know, what is the hardest thing that you ever did in your life? You know, whether you succeeded, or you failed? What did you learn from it? And how has it made you better? You know, we all have a story to tell. It's a matter of sit there going, what is my life been. And some of us have had more hardship, some of us have things easier than others. But we've all had challenges in our life, we've all had things that we've learned about. We've all met people in our lives that have changed our lives. And that's the start of your story. And as you grow, and as you change that story become has more tapestry, and it has more parts, and its leaves on the tree, heal. And if we can pick those different leaves off at different times and say, Yeah, I remember in 1987 when I was working at University of Victoria, and I was running the Mac lab, and guess what, all of sudden the police came in, because they were raiding our place for illegal software. Well, guess what, those were the heavy. Everybody had a legal software back then, you know, but the fact that somebody grabbed a duffel bag and throw the software, they were running out the door as the cops came in the front, you know, it's those stories that we all have. And we need to be able to tell, be able to remind this is hey, listen, what did we learn from this? And how is this made us who we are? What do we think about because every time we listen to that story about ourselves?
Marlana: okay, all of that made me think of two things. So, I'm going to ask you both of them, you can tackle them one at a time.
Ben: Sure!
Marlana: First one is, how many warts do we show? And the second one is, you know, people are often talking about rebranding, rebranding. Does our story ever really change? Or does it just become tighter or beer in a direction? Like, how often does it completely change course?
Ben: Okay, let's get into the warts. First of all, you are who you are good, bad, and ugly. Okay. We decide how much of ourselves we want to tell. And it's what are you comfortable with? You know, I'm comfortable sharing things that you may never want to tell people about. You may be comfortable talking about things that I would never talk about. And we need to be able to understand, heal. This might be as a part of our story, a wart that you tell one person. Because, you know, they went through, they're going through suicidal thoughts. And guess what, when you were 12 years old, you had those same self-doubts. You may tell that to that one person and never show that wart ever again. But it might be relevant to that one conversation and builds that bond that helps build that relationship. You know, so we need to decide, and it's not up to the internet to decide. It's not up to the world to decide which words we show which words we don't. We are who we are, but we just say Yo, yo, we're allowed to show as much, or as little of ourselves, as we're comfortable with. Now, let's get into branding. I tell them that a brand is a living thing. It morphs, it changes, y'all. As we grow, we become different, we learn new things, I am not the same person I was a 20, I'm not the same person I was at 40, You know, our art, what is important to us what, what our values are, were things, they change slightly, or our basic core identity remains the same. You know, there are certain things I will do in there certain things I won't do, there certain things that are really important to me, family is really important to me, friends are really important to me, doing a good job at work, not lying, standing up for what I believe, you know, if I shake somebody's hand and tell them to do it, it's gonna get done. Those are all part of my brand, that whether I'm 25 or 105, are going to be the same. But parts of who I am, may more if I may, I may soften. I may hurt and I may, you know, my opinion on things, excuse me, may change, and that's okay. But our basic core beliefs, the three-legged stool on which we sit, that if we pulled out one of those legs, we fall over, that never changes. And that's the essence of our brand.
Marlana: So, is there a difference in how we would tell our story, because I know this is a realm you delve a lot into also, aside from brandings podcasting is, do we tell our story differently on let's say, LinkedIn, and Facebook and Instagram versus on a podcast?
Ben: Well, here's the thing. Every medium is different. You don't show up the same way on Tik Tok, as you do on Twitter than you do on LinkedIn, that you do on Facebook. How you show up on a podcast is a little different as well. And it all depends. Is it an audio podcast? Is it an audio visual, is it video podcast? Yo, how I act on a video only podcast is gonna be very different than on an audio and because you need to be livelier, you need to be more gregarious, you need to be you know, there needs to be more movement and more action that goes on. Your tonality on an audio podcast is different again because you're what you're trying to do is you're trying to resonate through the tonality of your voice, you know, and be able to engage people. The message is the message is the message, but how we deliver it may be different based on you know, what are the questions that are asked to us? You know, how you asked me a question is going to deal with how I respond to it. You know, what, back to the words, do I omit? Do? Do I do? I add do I embellish? And, you know, that's really comes down to it. And podcasting is an amazing medium because it's raw. Some people edit the heck out of their podcast, and you know, they have these, you know, trite little podcast was, you know, they get rid of all the thumbs, the odds, the space, they cut out the 20 minutes have an hour podcast? Because they don't think it's relevant. They have the music and stuff like that. Okay, that's theatre production. I don't do theatre production. My attitude is my podcast, unless somebody says something that they say, I really shouldn't have said that. It stays in the podcast, okay. And, you know, I'll still get rid of the arms and the oz. But to me, it's not high theatre. It's enabling people to have real live conversations, and let people connect with me through the sound of my voice and connect with the person that I'm interviewing with, with the sound of their voice and build that know, like, and trust through an audio medium, and that that's a very different medium that is television, which is social media. All these mediums are different. It's understanding the medium first, and then being able to tell the story in a way that's gonna be relevant to that audience listening, utilizing that mediums characteristic.
Marlana: Is it better for us to be a guest on a show or have our own show? Or is it a combination of both? Or is it neither?
Ben: It really depends on the person. You know, I tell most people here's the thing. I think the latest stats, somebody is going to tell me I'm wrong is that there's somewhere in the neighborhood of three and a Have to 4 million podcasts out there. You know, there's enormous number of podcasts have happened over COVID Every everybody in their mother started a podcast, over COVID 90% of them fail. 90% of those podcasts are dead within 10 episodes. And the reason is, is because people don't understand the amount of hard work that it takes to be able to put the podcast, finding the right guests, pre interviewing them, making sure everybody's comfortable. Actually, doing the interview, the editing, all the show notes, the images that go with it, the social media posts, making sure that all that engagement is dealt with, it's an enormous amount of work, I am over 300 episodes in on the Your Living Brand Tot live show. That's five plus years of week in week out podcasts. It's an enormous amount of work. And what I tell people is, here's two things. One, when you're first starting a podcast, create an episode, I'm sorry, create a series, this is going to be season one, season one will have 15 episodes, and we let people know that this is gonna be season one, it's gonna be 15 episodes right off the bat, it gives you enough time to come up with a strategy for 15 different conversations, to sit there and evaluate Is this something I really want to do. If you do, then you move forward. If not, it sits in a pocket on its own. And that material can be you know, turned into, you know, social media posts could be put on your website, it could be put on email campaigns, there's all sorts of things, you can cut it around, and it becomes great content to be able to share it forever. However, a lot of people aren't even comfortable with that. And I tell people before you even go to that point, go be on 1015 20 different podcasts over a period of three months. And see whether you like it, do you like being on air? Do you feel comfortable in front of a mic? You know, is this a? I really didn't know what to say. Or are you just sitting there going, You know what I'm just telling my story, and I'm comfortable with it. And this is I'm in my pocket. And once you realize that this is something that you're in your pocket, and you realize okay, this is the story that I want to tell, or this is what I want to do. This is the audience I want to do it for this is why they're going to care. And this is why they're going to share it, then you can go turn around and create a podcast that is going to be able to do that. But it's a right knee podcast, don't create a general podcast, create a podcast in 1957, Chevy's and big block engines or, you know, big wheel vehicles or fly fishing in the North Pacific Northwest, you know, something that is good to sit there and say, Alright, I'm not going to have a million followers. But I'm going to have 5000 people that really care about what I care about. And therefore, that's an audience that I can not only relate to, but eventually, I'm going to be able to talk to them about even things that are important, that are relevant both to them, and to me, and hopefully help me to succeed in business.
Marlana: You know, because I didn't realize the scope of work when I first started, either. And it is a lot of work, just like Ben said. One of the things other than providing value to the people that listened to the show, I realized that it's the most amazing networking tool. Because I get to have a conversation for about a half hour with some amazing people, learn about them. And usually, it's our second conversation because I've talked to them prior. And I have made some amazing friends and connections from doing the show and had some incredible opportunities come up.
Ben: Yeah. And I consider it a masterclass. They think of it every single week, I get a masterclass with somebody that's way smarter than I am in some particular area. Yeah. And I get to ask them questions for free. And they're going to answer them in a way that I can not only listen to them as we're having this conversation, but I'm taping it, and I can go back to it and be able to reference it and be able to utilize it to be able to make myself better and be able to serve my clients better. So, there is enormous value in having a podcast, but you need to be able to understand and it's an amazing amount of work. It's not a short-term goal. And it's something that requires dedication. And you know, and you need to have the ego to sit there say okay, I've got 30 followers. Okay, next month, I might have 50 followers, then I might have 100, Maybe I'll have 150, Maybe I'll have 200 You're not going to have a million followers. You're not going to be Joe Rogan? Yo, your doctor to be Tim Ferriss unless you are one in a million.
Marlana: So, let’s say somebody is listening, and they wanna start a show, but they don’t know how to go about it, or they really don’t have the time to do it, I know there’s something that you dive in called Podcast hires, tell us a little bit about what that is.
Ben: Yeah, I mean, there’s a bunch of different things. People go to yourbrandmarketing.com website. If they go through the headings, I think its under the Work With Us, we have a course on teaching people how to create your first podcast. It’s an online course, I’ve done all the videos, you know, there’s a course for people to take and figure out what do they need to be able to create the podcast that’s gonna be good for them. We do consulting, but for larger companies, we come in and hold your hand through the entire process. We will come in and we will do the strategy with you, we could even provide host for the podcast, either work with your host to train them on how to become a better host, and you know, maybe sit with them for 10 or 15 episodes, get them comfortable on the market and then be able to transition out and just be there as a coach on the background. But also, at the same time we’ll also do the backing for them, so we’ll take care of, first of all setting the podcast up properly.
Marlana: That’s huge!
Ben: Exactly, doing all the editing for them, getting the show notes done, make sure that its posted properly, making sure that it gets on to I heart, iTunes, Spotify, Google Play, and all those types of things and make sure it’s done right. So, we work with corporations, and we do both external facing podcasts, and we do internal facing podcasts. And or internal facing podcasts, those are for companies that do like a $100 billion and above, or a hundred thousand employees, and those are designed to be really an internal communication who can’t do it, to enable people understand what’s really going on in the company, change management, build product development, DEI, purpose, culture, training - all those sorts of things happen. Once its done, you can stream only on the proprietary system that’s private and secure, that’s permission based. So, only people that are part of your organization could have access to it.
Marlana: Yeah, Just once again, telling the right story to the right people.
Ben: Exactly! And those people need the story told to as well.
Marlana: Yeah! So, with that Ben I just have four final questions for you.
Ben: Oh my God! Okay!
Marlana: What’s the best piece of advice you were ever given?
Ben: Best piece of advice I was ever given is, if you don’t know, say so and go find out.
Marlana: Share with us one thing on your bucket list.
Ben: Oh God! There’s a lot of things on my bucket list. I would love to interview Sir Richard Bradson or Billi Joel. Those will be two of my bucket lists, if anybody have those connections, I would love to have those connections. If it happens it happens, if it doesn’t it doesn’t, but that would definitely be my bucket list.
Marlana: Okay, so when the toys companies finally get around to making an action figure of you, what two accessories will it come up with?
Ben: It’ll definitely come with a microphone, and it will definitely come with shoes.
Marlana: And the last one Ben, how do people find you?
Ben: The best way to find me is at yourbandmarketing.com. You know, that takes you to my podcast, it takes you to my training, my consulting, everything that you need. You know, it’s the central repository, social media, everything is right there. If people scroll down to “Publications” there’s a hole bunch of free e-books that are not bound to pay wall. Just grab them, they’re PDF format, use them, take them, and make your life better.
Marlana: Love it, thank you so much for that and thanks for being here.
Ben: Hey Marlana, thanks so much for having me on the show. I always love talking to you.