Lessons From a Stuntman
Kevin Cassidy- business is Ninja Nation Charlotte. Book is Falling Down to Find Myself
Bullied kid to Hollywood stuntman to business owner, author and family man
www.marlanasemenza.com
Audio : Ariza Music Productions
Transcription : Vision In Word
Marlana
From Bullied Kid to Hollywood stuntman to business owner, author, and family man; today we learn a few life lessons from Kevin Cassidy. Welcome, Kevin.
Kevin
Thank you, thanks for having me.
Marlana
So, the title of your book is Falling Down to Find Myself. Talk to us about what that title means.
Kevin
Obviously, it's a little bit of a play on words. I was a stuntman for a lot of years, so I quite literally fell down for a living. And then through life going, through failures and falling down figuratively, was very important for me to get to this success and happiness. I had labor in life, so falling down literally and figuratively to kinda making you a whole person. That's kind of where it's going.
Marlana
So, you grew up on Long Island and you said that you became a stunt man. How did you become a stunt man?
Kevin
Crazy long story, but I'll shorten it up for you. So, I moved from Long Island to Charlotte, North Carolina when I was 10 years old, in fifth grade. And I was born in the birth defect in a speech impediment in a heavy long island accent in North Carolina in the late eighties.
Marlana
You had all kinds of things working against you,
Kevin
It was a lot. I remember bringing a bagel to school when the kid thought it was a really bad tasting donut. But anyway, I went to college, and I played baseball, I was an athlete and played minor league baseball, a very low-level minor league. Became a teacher in Baltimore City. My pastor was teaching mentor coaching and that kind of stuff. And there was a sport we used to watch on TV called Slam Ball. It was full contact basketball at trampolines. It was on TV for a couple years. Me and my buddies watched it. It was had a good time. They had a tryout for that in Philadelphia. I was living in Baltimore. One of my good friends is from Philly. Went there for a weekend, kind as a goof. We go this tryout, and I messed around and made it and they shipped me to LA for another round of the tryouts.
And I was a teacher this time just outside of DC in Hyattsville. And I talked to my principal. I said, Hey, here's what's happening. 24, I have a free ride to lab I can get cut tomorrow. I'll be home in two days. I can be there for two weeks, or I could be there for four months. I have no idea. I'm not gonna burn this bridge. I'm not gonna do this unless, and if I lose a job, are you kidding me? You always have a job here. Go have fun. You know, she was awesome, very supportive. Alright! Went to LA and made that sport and lived in LA for about four months. And a guy I met, there was a stuntman who did a lot of sports, movies, football, and baseball movies. And stuck on his couch for a little bit and got a tryout for a movie called The Longest Yard with Adam Sander and Burt Reynolds and all those people. Went to that tryout, made that movie, got into the union learned the whole stunt world and oh, I'll stay here as long as it, you know, until this kiss me back to, you know, Baltimore, to teach and ride this wave. As long as I can do it. And 18 years later I'm looking for an escape from it.
Marlana
I'm gonna show my ignorance a little bit. Is there a school basically that you can go to that will teach you how to fall and all those kinds of things?
Kevin
No, you have to kind of bring that to the interview, for lack of a better word. It's all word of mouth. There's no inter, there's Asians, no managers, no auditions. Every now and then there'll be a big audition, like that football movie. You need a bunch of football players, a very specialty skill. But usually there's none of that. There's no agency managers auditioned this all. You sub immerse yourself in the community. There's a stuntman softball league, a stuntman golf tournament. There's stuntman outings and different guys train at different gyms or different specialties, martial arts or horse riding, or there's Red Bull skydives or searches of people. And there's any, any branch of random athletic endeavor. They're all out there.
So, you get to know these people, you immerse yourself in the community and word of mouth and you get one job, do a good job, get another job, and it takes a long time to build up the reputation where you're working steadily. So, you kind of have to bring enough tools to the table to make you hirable at first, which was football and baseball and all those sports things. I got in and as I was doing those, I was learning how to fight and drive cars and come off buildings and do fire. And you kind of build your repertoire and you know, off you go. So, there's really no school. You just gotta throw yourself in there in the community,
Marlana
Which is kind of crazy to me when you think about it because I mean, these are some serious things if you're falling off buildings and whatnot. So, will somebody else take you under their wing or is it kind of competitive?
Kevin
Mostly under their wing. Everyone is a very cool community. Like I said, because it's word of mouth you only do the job that you're gonna be good at. So, if you're gonna be a person looking for someone to back flip a motorcycle and you call me, Hey Kevin, I need a guy. Your height and weight to do this back flip on a motorcycle. I'm like, I can't do that. I'm not taking that job. I'll give you $10,000. I don't care. I can't do that cuz tomorrow I'm gonna show up and have to do it and if I lie or didn't do it, then I'm never working again. You found it solely your reputation. It was very reputation based. And you take the job that you know you're pretty good at in the beginning, then you build your reputation. So, everyone kind of likes building people up.
And I think back in the day it was more competitive when I started because there weren't as many shows going on. But now at Netflix, Hulu, Apple, and hbo, there's millions of contents, millions of shows going on. So, there's more work than there are people to perform. 20 years ago there was like, there's 10 movies, you may be really good, get on one of them or you gotta go back to bartending or doing something else. So, I think back then it was a little more cutthroat. But as a person who hires all the stunt people, you need to build a good crew around you. So always wanna give someone a shot cuz you always need people of different specialties and everything. So, it's mostly building up and now it's for sure building up
Marlana
What's your best and worst memory?
Kevin
Man, best memory is, it's kind of like locker room, like I was an athlete. So, you have that, that vibe and you're with like-minded people. You're doing physical outlet stuff and you're also creative. You're doing fight choreography; you're doing camera angles. You learn how to train the actors and what this character should do and how he should move. And you have that creative piece and then you have to just get in there and get, ask her at piece, which it really bonds people. So, kind of most of my best memories are their friendships and relationships and all those things that environment gives you and mean some of the injuries and some of the, I should have done this, or I should've start that job or not, nothing terrible, all like kind of, you know, plants on the road ahead. But all is mostly good.
Marlana
What do you take, that you learned during that whole time that you have brought forward with you?
Kevin
Oh, the big thing I learned was like, your show is about branding and everything. I was always the guy that kept my mouth shut and was a good baseball football player. I played and I started, I got a scholarship, and I didn't ever talk much. And then I went out to LA and I'm on the stuntman softball league and I was a pro baseball player. I look really good out there. I'm like, oh, I'm way more than now. These guys, I'll run this whole world pretty soon. Didn't know that that guy's a world class martial artist and that guy was a world-class rodeo guy and that guy was just a bull skydiving and they don't play baseball. So that humility was great in learning that. And then you have to build your own resume, build your own highlight reel, print your own headshot, and you're your own business and you gotta sell yourself to them, to the people.
And I won't sell myself, they'll call me cuz I'm good. No calls. You have to get yourself out there. And we called hustling sets. You just break onto a movie set, find nothing. The stunt coordinator is, but hey, I'm here, here's my information. And you kind of sneak off without getting arrested. So, there's a whole light says boots on the ground sales technique. You are the product, and you are the business owner, and you are the marketing director and you are all that. So that world was different for me, and I probably got, I ramped slower than I would've. Cause there were times I would get a phone call, Hey, can you do this stunt? Yeah, I can do that. No problem. Something I can very easily do. But I just, yeah, I can do that. Sure, okay, well I'll call you back tomorrow.
I will call him back tomorrow. I found this other guy you can do. He was really excited about it. He really saw himself more. I'm like, those guys terrible. I know that guy. I mean, he's a nice guy, but he's not as good as I am. But he got the job. Oh, I gotta get better at that phone call and I can never be fake. I did it in a slow and steady way, which is truer to who I am. But I could have branded myself better. It got out a little earlier, but on any of the days I was very successful. So, I take that with me to this now career of getting out there, building a brand and all that.
Marlana
Yeah. How do you prepare both physically and mentally for stunt work?
Kevin
Physically, like I say, you have to put a lot of tools in your toolbox. So, I learned how to fight and learn how to drive, learn how to fall and all that. And you only take the jobs you know you're gonna be successful at first. And then other times you're like, well, you're the best guy for the job. You gotta give it a shot and you and your boss work about it and like, oh, try, we'll practice or whatever. So physically you just put as many physical tools in a toolbox as you can. Be a good fight guy, be a good car guy, be a good whatever, and, you know, stay in shape and you have to do the stunt. If you fall down the stairs, you gotta do that five, six times in the road. You need a different camera angle.
If you do it one time and break your arm, you're no longer employable. And if you're not working, you're not getting paid. So, you'd be able to do that. Look gnarly but be safe at it. So, practicing falling and crashing out, building those callouses all over your body and your bones so you can kind of do it and do it again. So physically it's pretty easier to kind of do all that is very tangible mentally not getting a job, not working for months at a time. Finding other people who are getting a job that you think you should have got. Not getting too down yourself, finding out who to train, how to do all that. Showing up on set, okay, you're gonna do this really big stunt fall out the window, it's gonna be awesome. And you get there, I'll pump to do it.
To prove yourself. Oh, don't we run outta time. You don't have a budget. We gotta cut that stunt. We're not doing it. And you go home not doing anything like, oh man. So, there's a lot of highs and a lot of lows that mentally you really have to prepare for. And a lot of that is done by talking to the people above you, being in those communities. Hey, here's what's gonna happen. That's part of the job, and kind of building that up if you just get, you know, thrown in the mix and that happens. It's a real mental struggle.
Marlana
How do you handle rejection?
Kevin
I'm very good, I'm very practiced at it. It doesn't really bother me. Sometimes it bothered me more. The rejection part never really bothered me, but the reasons behind it kind of bothered me. Maybe this is my buddies. I'm giving him the job and that you, okay, well that doesn't sit right and that frustrates you and that's, you know, nothing can do about it. But it teaches you to put your best foot forward. And it's a numbers game like any other sales job in the beginning. While you're building that reputation, keep putting yourself out there, keep getting rejected, keep putting yourself out there. And each one has a different scenario of rejection. Sometimes you just don't fit. The actor's too tall, you're too short, not fair enough. It's easy to deal with that one. Other times I don't have the ability, I can't back up a motorcycle.
I mean, I reject that one. But other times when you do feel like you're the right fit and everything's perfect and you don't get it, it's but most of the guys who are doing that are, Hey, here's why build this up. I know this guy. You might be better if I worked with this guy 20 years, so I gotta, fair enough. Stick around and you'll be that guy soon. Then you can deal with that better. But it's how it's delivered and the community you have around you to help, help support you in those times.
Marlana
You had mentioned earlier that you had a facial deformity. So how did that affect your life and your mental fortitude?
Kevin
I think I built it. I speak about, well, it was a very strict cleft pallet. So, when I was born, there was a bubble from bottom of my nose all the way back to mouth. I had no roof in my mouth, no nose, no teeth, no bone up there. So, I had a lot of surgeries to put different things in my mouth. And then in seventh grade I took bone from my hip and created a roof of my mouth and, and this bone here. Before that I was completely flat with no nostrils, and then learning how to talk over and over again. It was very nasal. And then had different contraption in my mouth and a different contraption and another surgery and like, oh, that's like during middle school, which is a kind of tough route to go.
I didn't go to a very great middle school, so it was kind of rough. But I always still had good friends, like good family support. I never internalized it. I don't know if that's, you know, nature nurture. It never really became like who I was or just something that I had a, you know, fight through. And it was never a hundred percent of my day. Like now with social media and everything. And if I were getting bullied now, it would never go away. I would see them my phone, oh man, that would be really hard. But back then, 10, 20 little comics a day, maybe a fight get picked on. And then most of the time you're still playing with your friends and everything's fine. You go home and it's gone and the next day it starts over.
Sometimes it'll be days in a row, or nothing happened. Days in a row, a lot of things happened, but there weren't full days of things happening. So, it's easy to kind of take it and leave it and progress through it. The fact that it was literally on my face, I couldn't hide from it. Like if you had problems at home or learning disability or something like that, you can kind of shy away from and fake like it's not there. That would really be harder, I think, because it was here, I can't see what I look like, so I forget. I didn't really hear the really bad speech impediment. I didn't hear it myself as other people heard me. So, I kept talking, kept making jokes. Oh yeah, I forgot you know, making fun of me again. So, the fact that I had to deal with it really helped me get out in front of it.
And by the time I was in high school, I was just, my nickname was Rat Boy in junior High. And I learned to kind of answer to it. It was something where people didn't even know my real name, they just called me that night derogatory. I was on the football team. And so I learned to and you learned a line where even some friends that kind of make a couple of comments like, oh, that was kind of witty. You can laugh with him a little bit, then it goes too far. Like yeah, that's too much. And kind of finding that line with your friends in middle school and high school and all that, I was ahead of the curve cuz that was all thrown at me at such a young age. By the time we got to high school, that was, it was nothing bothered me anymore. So, I was lucky and blessed to have that. I think right now.
Marlana
What would you say to any kids that are going through any kind of a similar situation?
Kevin
As hard as you find a good support group, maybe there's your parents or friends and there's always somebody out there who's gonna empathize with you if you're a good person. I mean, if you have these, like what show I had that was also an a-hole gonna be tough. You better build that character, be a nice person, be hardworking, do all that in inside work and then people will be, you'll, you'll find great people too, to surround yourself with and search those out. Put yourself out there. Don't give up on that for if two guys are bullying you or picking on you, there's gonna be 10 people around. You're like, ah man, I feel bad for that kid. I wanna help him out. Find those people. Hang out with those people. Don't find the people who pity you, but find the people who are treating you like a normal person and they're there, they're everywhere. So never stop putting yourself out there to find that crew. And when you do life will be a lot better.
Marlana
It sounds like you had a really good support system though, along the way between friends and family.
Kevin
I did. And like my, all my family in New Yorkers, my dad born and raised in Brooklyn, mom, born and raised in Queens. My grandparents were cops, my uncles were cops, my cousins were cops. Irish, Italian, new Yorkers. So, there was no pity in my household, no one, even to this day, like in the book, I called my mother Lovably Oblivious. And she had to write a couple, like sign her <laugh>, I won't see you for talking bad about me. Some NDAs for publishing. But she even commented she was, I never knew you were being bullied, said Mom, I went to a really rough school. There's a gang fight in seventh grade. I didn't have a face, I couldn't talk. Right? You had no clue. <Laugh>. No, I thought you were fine. Alright, good. So like parents, I'd rather go that route than bubble a kid.
Protect your own, you're special, don't worry about it. My parents probably went the other way, just throw me to the wolves and figure it out. But at the end of the day I was figuring it out and I was fine. I was on, you know, the sports team and getting good enough grades and had good friends. So, all those like flags. I’m a parent now and if my daughters don't have a good friend group, I don't, well there's a big flags here. Let's see what's going on. I had all those things. So, kudos to my parents for, for, for not, you know, enabling me with a victim mentality. So, the support at home wasn't super supportive as far cause they didn't know what was happening. It wasn't, you know, running me down my support and my friends and my teammates and neighborhood kids riding bikes and all that. It was just, I was living in good areas, I guess. Even in bad, I used to teach in Baltimore City and bad areas. They were great people all over the place. So just build that support network.
Marlana
How do you translate all of that into how you raise your kids?
Kevin
I'm big on tough love. I'm tough and I love, I say I love 'em all the time. I hug them and I throw the ride hat in the trash if I need to. There's, I'm very big on accountability character. Like you hit your sister. I have three daughters, six, four, and two. So, I'm kind of in the trenches of childcare right now. So, she hit me. Did you hit her? Yes, but no, but that's wrong. What you did was wrong, period. All the outside external factors about that don't matter. You did something wrong, you're getting accountable for it. And we will talk about it later. And, you know, building, I think a lot of people don't do that anymore, but I was raised, we got hardcore New Yorkers, so that was all it was. And it made sense to me. And it makes everyone in my family pretty good quality people and got their stuff together. So, I mean, broke, don't fix it. So, I'm a tough and the love and the accountability.
Marlana
Love it. So, you took all of this, and you have now built this thing called Ninja Warrior. Tell us what that is.
Kevin
So, when I was in Hollywood, I was all over the world working on movies, and I started having kids, growing a family, not really sustainable for, you know, family life. I was in Europe and London and Prague know Spider-Man far from home. I came home one weekend for my daughter's birthday, flew right back on Sunday night and I was like, I gotta get outta this business to, you know, be closer to my kids. And had a bunch of business plans. Had bigger, stronger, faster, kind of like G one training things and baseball or football training or mentorship kind of stuff, and all these different buildings I was gonna build. And, and in my stunt world, I got to know a bunch of park core athletes, major warriors, like I said, red Bull skydives, and Circuit Slay people and rodeo people and martial artists and all these different motocross people.
And the guys who have like, the s games mentality, the motocross guys and the ninja warriors and the park core guys. They just had a really cool community. They were always right big, working hard building each other up. It was really, really neat. And the more I started looking at business plans, I didn't wanna get into baseball, football, basketball, if you're good at eight, nine years old, there are sharks in the water trying to get you on their travel team, get you on, I'll get you a scholarship, pay me this money. The parents are throwing money to get the kid to Stanford. And that is all soul sucking to me. I don't want any part of that. I wouldn't be patient with it. And this world doesn't have that. I mean, you're always gonna have parents who are a little too serious or whatever, but so I decided to do a Ninja Warrior Park gym and in my research of doing, trying to open this business, I found this company called Ninja Nation that's based in Denver.
And they were doing it right. Our Phil, our philosophies lined up the CEO, he left corporate America to do a kind of a cool thing with kids. They built a community. So the whole things I wanted to do, he was doing by partnering with him, opened one of his franchises in Charlotte. So there, I'm the second ever franchise to open. And there's one going up in Austin, Texas right now. A couple in Nashville, a bunch in like Houston and Phoenix. So, the branch building. So, I got into the brand really early to help build the brand and use my movie stuff and have a really cool place for kids to, you know, get ninja into warrior stuff.
Marlana
So, what about it is important to you? What touches your heart?
Kevin
Like falling down failure, like, it is built around failure. There's no scholarships to be had, no money to be made, but there's a lot of character to be built. Anyone can do it. There's no 80 year old or eight year old can come in and you just try to jump from here to here and you miss, and you miss and you miss you made it. That was awesome. Do those times a thousand. This whole gym was climbing and jumping and balance and there's nothing but obstacles that you can challenge yourself to get better at that you'll never get better at unless you try it and you're gonna fail the first time no matter what. And it's just, we have a competitive team that builds everybody up and it's every, like a lot of gymnastics places, if you're not good enough, they don't want you there either on the team or you're not, which is fair. It's a very competitive world. We're here. You can be either good or bad and you still have a, you can still find the place. You get better, you still compete with yourselves. And seeing that day in, day out, it's pretty awesome.
Marlana
In that kind of a case, when it's everybody does seem to have a place. Does it also foster a little bit of a we cheer for each other, you know, everybody else's wins and things like that?
Kevin
Yeah. Talking about the stunt team and there was no huge ninja community in Charlotte. <Affirmative>, like Atlanta has one. There's random places that have 'em. It's getting bigger. But Charlotte, there's a, for the business, there's no competition, which is great, but no one knows what it is and there's no community that is gonna come. So, I'm building that from scratch. The good part about that is everyone came in, started not knowing what to do, and now they're really good. So, they see new kids come in, they wanna help, everyone's building everybody up. It's a really cool environment. And, and we foster that. And I mean, you have kids of all ages and you're gonna have some bickering and some egos and, but the community as a whole is a very uplifting and a high five kind of base world.
Marlana
So, if anybody's listening and they're in the Charlotte area, what's the criteria?
Kevin
5-105. We like to say you can play, train, or compete, you can come for a summer camp, a birthday party. We have an open gym. Anytime we're open, you can come in and just play on it. Just try it out. We have staff work walking around all day, spotting people, helping people, engaging with people. So, you can just come and play or you can train, join our development program like at the school, like a message come one day a week, you're in a class, they teach you how it better, it's all level based or you can compete and join a competitive team and go to the next level. So, you can kind of interact with it any way you want, which I really like as well.
Marlana
So, if people listening to you right now get nothing else out of this, what do you want them to get out of it?
Kevin
The big theme of my book is, I'm calling it a philosophical memoir, the story of my life and lessons I've learned and, you know, who you are matters more than what you are. Like for me, I was a bully kid. I was a Hollywood company man. I was a college athlete. I was homeless, I was a teacher. I got arrested, I got kicked outta college. I got, there's a lot of what I've been, I've been a bartender, a bouncer, a personal trainer. So, I, I've been so many what in my life, but never took any ownership identity in my watch. My who, my character, my integrity, my work ethic, a good friend, a good father, all that. That's way more important to me. So, build that up. And once you build that up, you can get through so many what, cause you're gonna go from middle school to high school, high school to college, college at work son and daughter to mother and father or single to married.
You're gonna always go through a trans transition of what, whether a career or anything. And if you haven't done the internal work of who you are, those transitions are gonna be a lot harder. And luckily, I was forced to do that with my, you know, birth defect, speech impediment at an early age. So all the things I went through in life kind of strengthen that. And that made me even through like some of the trauma, I was always a happy kid, a happy person. That's the key. I never wanna be happy. Some people need a million dollars to be happy. Some people need a couple horses and living a hundred acres, whoever makes you happy. That's the goal. I find that happiness and it's a lot easier once you've done the internal work of building that character first over external things to be, to find that happiness. So that's kind of what I want the world to take away from my story.
Marlana
What would be your one tip or piece of advice to do that internal work so you can strengthen your who and be less dependent on your what?
Kevin
I think the big block a lot of people have is your ego. Humility is, is a, is a very valuable tool to have. And honestly, the world right now is pretty easy. It's easy to have ego. It's easy to be protected from failure. To not put yourself out there, to have a decent house, decent job, your iPhone and your car and life's easiest. It's safe, it's fine. But if you don't put yourself out there in position to fail, you're never gonna really learn who you are. So just like putting yourself out there as a kid or adolescent to find that good friend group, put yourself out there. Do something hard, even if it's run a mile, if you can't run or write a book, if you can't write or learn calculus or anything, that might be hard, do it. Start slow and put yourself out there.
Do hard things. The harder things you do, the more time you do hard things, the more that would chip away your ego. And then once your ego is down to a manageable level, then you can build that humility up and then you can actually see the world in a different light. And look, oh man, maybe I was kind of blinded and I was putting external things more important than internal things. But you can't do that until your ego is chipped away at. And the best way to do that is to do hard things.
Marlana
I love that. It's almost like, go for failure
Kevin
Yeah. Let yourself fail,
Marlana
And you know, it’s also interesting to me too, because I'm a big believer in humility and unfortunately, humility gets a really bad rap along the way because people think that it's thinking less of yourself and it's not. It's just that it means that you are teachable and you are moldable and you think of others also.
Kevin
Yeah. I put in the book a term that I used a lot. It's called humble confidence. Mm-Hmm. Be humble and be confident. Confidence without humility is just ego. Keep that confidence, but parent with humility. And we're good. Like find that balance. But you can be very humble and super confident. I was very humble in my Hollywood days cause I knew I could do this stunt. I'm going be humble about it, but I'm gonna do a great job at the same time. You can be confident and humble at the same time. Find that balance is key.
Marlana
Love it. And with that, I just have four final questions for you. First one is, what's the best piece of advice you were ever given?
Kevin
I don't know, advice or gift I was given was the freedom of fail. Like no one protected me for failure. So learning on your own, not having someone do the work for you. Mm-Hmm. So it's not maybe tangible advice, whereas my parents kind of hands off approach, he seems fine, I'm gonna figure it out. Kind of that freedom to fail and to grow was, you know, was its own advice I guess.
Marlana
share with us one thing on your bucket list.
Kevin
Oh, man. Easy things like advance or sports I want to go to, but that's not, that's real. The thing on my bucket list is I wanna be around for my daughter's weddings. So if I can chat that off my bucket list, I'd like to live long enough to be at my daughter's weddings and meet their husbands and know that they're taken care of. That's the number one goal right now. So that's kind of my bucket list is to be there for them to get on that day.
Marlana
Spoken like a loving dead. When the toy companies finally get around to making an action figure of you, what two accessories will it come with?
Kevin
Probably a Heart and a Whip. For the Tough and the Love.
Marlana
Love it. And last one Kevin, how do people find you? And also, tell us a little bit about your book. How do they get your book? How do they find Ninja Nation, all that kind of thing?
Kevin
you can go to find Ninja Nation @ninjanation.com. It'll scroll locations. I'm in Huntersville, North Carolina. So, an Ninja Nation, you just Google that and find that anywhere or ninjanation.com. The book is called Fallen Down to Find Myself. They can find it on Amazon, Google that anywhere of Soul Barnes and Nobles. I have a website, kevinkassidy.com, and a podcast I do like this are usually linked on there, a little blurb about me, some cool videos, and pictures of my Hollywood days. You can buy the book from there. I do speak engagements at schools and presentations, mentorship programs and all that. So, all that content is on my website. So, those are probably the best ways to find me. My website or information is an information.com.
Marlana
Love it. Thank you so very much for being here.
Kevin
Thank you very much.