Which Bird Are You?

Merrick Rosenberg, CEO, Take Flight Learning

Merrick Rosenberg co-founded Team Builders Plus, one of the first team building companies in the United States, back in 1991. In 2012, he reinvented how people learn about themselves through the personality styles and started his second company, Take Flight Learning. He is the author of four books about tapping into the power of your personality, including The Chameleon and Personality Wins. Merrick has worked with more than half of the Fortune 100 companies in the U.S. and around the world. Under Merrick’s leadership as CEO of Take Flight Learning, his company has been selected as the New Jersey Business of the Year by NJ Biz Magazine and has repeatedly been named as one of the Fastest Growing Companies and Best Places to Work in the Philadelphia area by the Philadelphia Business Journal.

Websites:  MerrickRosenberg.com, TakeFlightLearning.com

Twitter:  @MerrickR

Instagram:  Merrick_Rosenberg

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/PersonalityWins

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/merrickrosenberg/

www.marlanasemenza.com

Audio : Ariza Music Productions

Marlana: In 2012, Merrick Rosenberg reinvented how people learn about themselves through personality styles and started his second company Take Flight Learning. He's the author of four books about tapping into the power of your personality, including The Chameleon and Personality Wins. Welcome, Merrick.

Merrick: Thanks for having me.

Marlana: So first of all, tell us what these personality types are.

Merrick: Well, there's four core styles, and historically; they've been this alphabet soup of letters. And I wanted to make it easier and simple for people to remember. So I linked the four styles to four birds makes it pretty easy and also very obvious too. If you think about an eagle. Eagles are confident, they're assertive, they're take charge, very direct, they like to be in charge. You've got parrots, parrots are fun. They're social, talkative, outgoing, they bring lots of energy and excitement, doves caring, compassionate, or soft spoken. This is that person in your family. They want everyone to get along. They are harmonious and all like conflict. They're the peacemaker. And then you have the owl who's logical and analytical and detail oriented, if they're going to do something, they have a plan. And they do it right. The first time. They're accurate and very systematic, and they ask lots of questions. So we've got four styles. We're not just one, we're a combination of all four, but they play out in everything we do, from our personal relationships to work wherever we go,

Marlana: can we be one, but strive to be another? Or it's pretty much inherent in us, whatever the one is?

Merrick: There's often one or two styles that are very strong for us. And, you know, they drive our success, they allow us to be who we are, if you work out of your style, and you want it to be something else, it would be exhausting. If you take something like public speaking, well, parrots tend to like to be in front of a group, they love the energy, they like the fanfare. If you took that parrot and put them out on stage, they're loving it, it feeds their soul. But if you put them in a cubicle eight hours a day, and they have crank data in spreadsheets, and have zero human interaction, they would go home exhausted every day. So if you had a parrot who was trying to be more like an owl, they're just not wired for it, it would drain them, and why not do what feeds you instead of what drains you? So be yourself, trying to be somebody else is just going to exhaust you anyway.

Marlana: Which that makes perfect sense. So, tell us, what are the strengths of each one? Like how do we lean into that?

Merrick: If you look at the strength of the eagle style, their confidence, that confidence drives them to want to be in charge, because if I'm in charge, I will make it happen. It drives them to take risks. Because if I believe in myself, I might be taking a risk, but you know what, I will make it happen, I will achieve this objective, I'll accomplish something big. If you have someone like the Dove, their strengths are their interpersonal skills. So you ever talk to someone who's a dove, and they say to you, “Hey, how are you” and you say, “Oh, I'm good”. And then they look at you and they're like, “come on! What's going on?” And it's just this empathetic intuition. They sense it, and for the dove who leans into that strength, they might find a job where they're a counselor or a therapist or in a family. They're the peacemaker, and they keep everybody together. Parrot strengths are just those interpersonal skills, that ability to connect with people, talk with people, can go to a conference, not know anyone. And it looks like they know everybody. And because they have this interpersonal ability, they’re salespeople, they're able to sell. They're in human resources. They're care about culture. They're the person in your family who brings fun and energy and excitement. And for the owl, their core strength is the ability to be patient and take their time and ask the right questions. So they can do things well and do things right. And so they bring a sense of quality and accuracy and precision. And look, you want them in roles where if you don't do it, right, it's gonna be a problem. If you had a surgeon and you knew they were an owl, you might say, I'm pretty good with that. I like the fact that they're going to take their time, they're going to make sure everything's done properly. So, leaning into our strengths and being who we are, we can be the best version of ourselves.

Marlana: So, let me ask you this. Do each of them also then have inherent weaknesses that we need to be aware of?

Merrick: I don't necessarily think of them as weaknesses. What I think Give them as it's like pushing your strengths into the red zone, you take the owl style because they want to do things so correctly. If you drive that up and you push it into the red zone, it's like you crank up the strength too much, then they become the perfectionist, and they're so critical and they can't get anything done. And you take the Dove, they're compassionate, they're caring, but take anything to an extreme, even love. And you just dial that up into the red zone. They may be smothering. I think of them as like the grandmothers like I'm fully not a no, here you eat, but I'll put some on your plate. Not an awful! Alright! I'll wrap it for, you know, we got along right now, don't worry about it. I'll give it to you. And it's love but even love dialed up to an extreme because it can become smothering and become a week's parrot optimism, can become toxic optimism, where they're so positive, that they're unrealistic, that they bring so much energy and excitement. But now they're frenetic and scattered and all over the place. So even something as good as optimism, dial it up too much, how they're just not realistic and are grounded eagles, they're direct. That's great. You know what they're thinking they call it like it is, yeah, but dial it up too much push it in the red zone. And now they're blunt and insensitive and offending the people around them because they're too abrasive. So I don't necessarily think of the of the styles as having weaknesses. I think when you're getting to that space, there's some stressor that's causing that. And that's a red flag, something's out of balance. And that we need to bring you back into balance so that you're using the strength of the style, instead of those redzone behaviors, which probably push other people's buttons, and really don't serve us.

Marlana: So, how do we bring ourselves back into balance if we find ourselves going too far?

Merrick: Yeah, the first step is to realize, okay, this is a behavior that's not serving me, if you're a parrot, you have to have that self awareness to recognize, am I being optimistic or overly realistic? Am I being direct? Or am I being offensive? It's recognizing what your style looks like at a healthy level. And knowing what you look like when you are out of balance, so that when you then display those out of balance behaviors, it's that trigger of like, oh, yeah, I probably said that a little too bluntly. I'm an eagle. Alright, dial it back. Because once you do that, it's now getting in your way, you're probably as an eagle and offensive people around you. Now you're not getting the results you want. And so it's understanding what you look like at a healthy level, but also what you look like in that out of balance, overuse redzone level so that when it happens, it triggers the thought. All right, dial it back, take a breath.

Marlana: Is there a way to determine what someone else is? So we know perhaps how to work with them better? Or how to deliver information to them better?

Merrick: Absolutely! Look, if I were to model it for you, I'll show you and you can see if you can get started with style of owl and even just having known them for a few minutes, I will bet you'll be able to figure them out. So if I were to meet you and I just walked up to you. And I said hi there. Nice to meet you. Merrick Rosenberg. What style does that emanate for you? 

Marlana: Eagle. 

Merrick: Absolutely confident, direct Eagle. But if I said to you, Hi, how are you? It's so nice to meet you. What a pleasure. What do you think?

Marlana: Dove.

Merrick: But if they don't see how you do it instantly, and you just learned it. It's like I get it. Hey, how are you? Nice to meet you. Fantastic. So happy you're here. What do you think? 

Marlana: I'm gonna say parrot.

Merrick: Exactly right. Hi! Nice to meet you. Merrick Rosenberg. 

Marlana: That would be the owl.

Merrick: Notice how fast you did it is that once you learn these styles, there's an energy to them. And you feel it. It's almost like in a blink moment having just learned them you can still meet somebody and very quickly guess their style. And look, I'll give you a couple examples. Take somebody like Arnold Schwarzenegger, right? The Terminator, the governor, what style is that? Do you think he is I'm gonna say go exactly right. How about Ellen DeGeneres?

Marlana: I'm gonna say eagle.

Merrick: How about Ellen DeGeneres?

Marlana: I was gonna say a cross between a parrot and a dove.

Merrick: Exactly right. I think she's a parrot primary style, dove secondary style. So you notice how you do it. How about somebody like Bill Gates?

Marlana: Definitely owl. 

Merrick: Exactly right, Princess Diana? 

Marlana: Um! I'm gonna say Dove.

Merrick: Notice how once again, you just learned them. And you intuitively instinctively know their style. And I will tell you this, the more you practice this, the better you get at it, you meet people shake their hand and it's like, got it in seconds. And it's the beauty of learning the birds is that once you know your own style, and can read somebody else's style. Now you know how to flex and adapt and if it's what I call being the chameleon. When you meet them. You can be adaptable and flexible and not impose your style on them, but rather connect to them by birth. writing their style back

Marlana: So, let's say if somebody is an eagle, which is so dominant, connect with somebody and work with and deliver information to somebody who is a dove without running them over

Merrick: You can see the challenge is that the Eagles just very direct, they're calling it like it is. And all of a sudden they've been too direct and now they've offended the dove. Now there's an issue. And sometimes it's a matter of finding that happy medium, somewhere in the middle and look in report personal relationships equals Mary doves most often. Alright, carry out those opposites that are that are so different. They often connect, because we want somebody who is different. But then when we find them, we've got to be able to connect with that. So if you have someone who's an eagle, they probably need to dial down the directness, just a little bit. When you have someone's who is that dove in that relationship. They also need to dial up the acceptance that look when they're being direct. That has nothing to do with me, it's really not, oh, my gosh! Are they mad at me, because they just sent me a one line email. No, they're not mad at you. They're just direct. It's just who they are. So first of all, understanding it removes a lot of the drama, but also finding a happy medium, or it'll be a little less direct, or it'll be a little more direct. We'll meet somewhere in the middle, and it works. And so it really comes back to understanding. But it's amazing how the drama melts away. Once you have that.

Marlana: Is it more difficult for the more dominant personality to dial it back? Or is it more difficult for the less time go back to the eagle and the dove? Is it more difficult for the eagle to dial it back? Or is it more difficult for the dove to speak up?

Merrick: They are equally difficult. It is just as hard for the eagle to communicate in a soft spoken emotional way that's empathetic as it is for the dog to stand in their power and be direct and assertive. It's just as hard for the parrot to dial down some of that energy and enthusiasm as it is for the owl to dial it up. It's just as hard for the owl to dial down the level of detail as it is for the parrot to increase the amount of information they provide. When we work out of our style, it's draining, and it's no more draining for any style. Working out of our style takes energy. And that's true for all of the styles.

Marlana: Is it easier to work with or communicate with someone of a different style or have the same style? If you have two parrots together? And they're both kind of talking at each other? Is that more difficult?

Merrick: You might think that, oh, it'd be just so much easier. If everybody was like me, that would be simple. Yeah, but you're hitting the nail on the head. If you had two parrots, they're battling for airtime. They're having two conversations at the same time. If you have two eagles, they may be battling for authority. I know this is how I'm doing it. Yeah, well, this is what I'm doing. If you have two hours, they may be arguing over the process and the way that it gets done. They may agree about the goal. But it's here's the way that works for me. Well, here's the way that works for me. If you have two Dubs, quite frankly, they're probably not battling it out. They may get upset, but they don't tell you and then they internalize it. And then they wait till it gets super big, and then it explodes. And then they don't do that again for six months.

Marlana: Yeah, you know, and it's funny that you say that because I had an uncle who God loved them. But I truly don't even know if he ever heard anybody else as part of the conversation. Because he was so busy in his own conversation and talking at you and you're like, hello, hello, hello.

Merrick: He's the parrot. But notice what the issue is. He's the parrot in the red zone, that being talkative, being outgoing. This is a strength, that interpersonal ability, dial it up too much, you just literally suck the air out of the room, and no one else has the opportunity to speak and then it's all about me, and doesn't honor anybody else. And that's the parrot in overuse. And you say, but he's such a nice guy, you know, but now you're making excuses for the behavior that really doesn't give anyone the opportunity to be themselves too.

Marlana: Does it serve us then to have someone call us out on behavior?

Merrick: I think this is what our spouses do. That they're the ones who point out when we're in overuse, and they're the ones who acknowledge it, where, you know, you go to the workplace, and sometimes we have people who know if they would do this, they would be more effective, but their peers and very often peers are not comfortable giving feedback to each other. I sometimes ask this when I'm speaking at a conference, I say, Would you want somebody if they knew something that you're doing that was getting in the way of your effectiveness? Would you want them to share that information, you know, raise your hand if you want to know it. Of course, everybody raises their hand. And then I say, All right, I want you to pick anybody you work with, somebody who you've worked with for a while. And I want you to identify the one thing that if they did that one thing, they would be more effective. What's the one thing they could do that would really help them? And I'd give everybody a moment to think of that one thing. And then I say, raise your hand if you've shared that with that person. Hardly anybody has. And so that's the problem, is that, yes, it's powerful. And the people around us give us feedback. But often, we just don't do it except for our spouse. That's the person you get it from. And you have to pay attention to it. Because it's playing out at home. It's probably playing out in other settings, like the workplace as well.

Marlana: Or any of these personality types more open to feedback and are any, a lot less open to,

Merrick: You know, you think maybe there are maybe some styles are very open other styles, not so much. But it all comes down to how you say it. If you say it well. Anybody can be open to feedback, like some people might say, the Eagles probably not very open to feedback. Yeah. But you know what? If I said to the eagle, hey, I have a way I think you can get better results. Are you open to it? The Eagles are like, tell me, your turn to the owl. I've been thinking about something, I think there's something that could you could do that would help you to get more quality, quality results? Would you? Are you interested? With quality? Yes. It's like you frame it in the way that they listen, they will hear you. And so if you're giving feedback to parrots, and Dubs, look, I know you care about relationships and want to make sure everybody's happy. I have a few thoughts for you. Are you open to sharing, to hearing some thoughts about maybe some things you can do in the workplace to help you be more effective? What do you think? And so if you frame things from their perspective, everybody's open to feedback, the problem is, we tend to give feedback in our own style. And then it doesn't resonate, like in other words, if I'm a parrot, and I'm pointing out very specific details to an owl, or to a robot arm, I'll say it this way, if I'm a, an owl, and I'm giving very specific details to a parrot, they're probably not hearing you. If I'm an eagle, and I go bottom line, here's what you need to do. And you say that to a dove, they may not be hearing you. So you got to frame it from their perspective.

Marlana: Interesting! Now, because many of us are more than one bird, can we purposely draw up that other bird when we need to? Or? Because I know you'd said if we go against who we inherently are that it becomes exhausting. So let's say I'm mostly Eagle, and I need to pull up, you know, a parrot or something like that. But that's only a small piece of my personality, but it's still there. Can I do that? Or are there ways to do that? Are there ways to lean into that a little bit more?

Merrick: I think we have to learn to do that, I think we have to be able to get to a space where we're comfortable displaying any style. I'll give you a salesperson example. Yeah, and here's what I always tell sales folks, if you are selling someone, and their style is different from yours, one of you is going to leave that interaction exhausted. And it better be you. So this is true. If you're a manager, look, if you're interacting with someone, when your direct reports, and they are very different from you, and you're delegating work to them, or giving feedback to them, one of them is going to probably leave that interaction exhausted. And it better be you. And in our personal relationships, too, we have to at least find that happy medium, where we learn how to display all the styles because at some point you're going to need off. For a lot of people, there's the one style that is very low, and it gets them in trouble every now and then, because they don't display it. I mean, if you imagine a parrot who's never detail oriented, and tries to assemble something, and they're like, Wow, they give you so many extra parts. No, they don't actually, like it gets them in trouble. And that's true for all the styles. There's that one style that your lowest one that you have to learn how to tap into. So you can do it when it's needed. You don't have to live there, but you have to be able to do it or else it will get you in trouble at various times. If you can't display that style. 

Marlana: Let's say we are entrepreneurs and we run a business. This is a two fold question. How do we lean into our whatever style we are to grow our business or brand? And also too, if we are very weak in an area? Are we better served by hiring someone who displays that trait?

Merrick: Yeah, and I'll start with the second one. I always tell people that all the time staff your weakness. I worked with CPO a while back and I have an assessment that they can take, they can see their style. And you can see how zero to 100. What is your Eagle Okay? Your eagles, a 70 Your parrots a 10 year, the 30 year ELS a 40. Like you can see the graph of your style and the CEO. It was an entrepreneur and I started the organization about two years before that. And I was working with the senior leadership team and he had grown the organization he is team now. I mean, it's they're moving. And he looks at me he goes, isn't this crazy? Like everyone's graph is exactly the same? And it's exactly the same as his Yeah, nicely done, you hired eight images of yourself, how's that working for you? Staff your weakness, it's like, bring people who compliment you, who bring something else to the equation, not just people who mirror your own style. And so without a doubt, we do tend a lot of managers who are not self aware, will hire people in their own image. Now, that's not a great thing. And how do you step into the power of yourself? I think we naturally do that. I mean, you take somebody like Richard Branson, who's the parrot, he's a parrot CEO, he is very much a risk taking, let's just do it. It's his business model is well buy an airplane, I can run an airline, how about we go into the world of soda, and we'll bring a tank into Time Square, and we'll just run over a Coke and Pepsi. That'll be fun. I mean, that's what he does. It's like very carrot methodology of running a business, you could guess I mentioned Bill Gates is an owl, he probably ran his business very differently as an owl. And so we inherently are going to use our strengths. It takes someone just to round that out. Someone like Howard Schultz from Starbucks, I once heard him say, I wanted to create a business that my father never got to work at. And it's like, you know, it's about culture for the duff, he, they care about the environment and the culture at Starbucks. If you look at somebody like Steve Jobs, very Eagle, I don't care about what, you know, opinion surveys tell me or focus groups, they don't know what they want, I'll create it, and they'll buy it like that. That is a very Eagle methodology of how to run a business. But he also got fired from his own company, because he was overusing his ego. So I think we do inherently lean into our natural strengths. The key is to not overuse them. And to also recognize that I have some areas that I'm not good at. And I've got a staff that bring other people who aren't good. That's their inherent strength. If I'm a parrot, Eagle, for me, I have owls who worked for me, and I'm like, Thank God, they're here. They do all the things that I just shouldn't be doing this ***, there's things I should not be allowed to do. And you know what they do it and they were hired to do it, and they love to do it, and they're good at, and I am so thankful they are here. But if I hired people in my own image, that would not be a good thing.

Marlana: So, I'm sure that you've got some way to help us if we're unsure what our true strength is, and also, what our biggest weaknesses, I'm sure you've got ways for us to learn that your books and things like that. So talk to us a little bit about that.

Merrick: The first thing I always have people do is take an assessment like they were going to take flightlearning.com. And they can see the assessment and this way you start off with witchford. What are my strengths, and also what are my challenges and the assessment, the report tells you all of that. But also they go through training programs and people we offer training programs to companies that you can go through and learn about your style, learn about your team dynamics, learn how you're impacting the people around you and how you're driving your own success. And it's powerful. It's the most self aware people are the most successful people. They're also the happiest people at the heart of learning about yourself. But it's also about learning about the people in your life, and what do they need from you? And are you imposing your style on them? Or are you treating them the way they need to be treated? And that's what we do in the training programs is teach people how to treat people, so they get their needs met too.

Marlana: Love it. So tell us a little bit about because I know you have some books for adults. I also know you have a book for children. Talk to us a little bit about those.

Merrick: The Chameleon was a fun book to write. It's a series of 22 Fables. When I wrote Taking Flight, it's like one long fable, and then afterwards, okay, how to use the birds in your life. That was like writing a movie. The chameleon was like writing 22 episodes of a sitcom, each with a different plot and a different lesson. And it teaches you how do you use the styles in your life? How do they show up and how do you apply them so that you're connecting with people and being the best version of yourself, and I've always wanted to write a book for children, everywhere I speak, people say you've got to bring this to kids. I wish I knew this when I was younger. And so I used the time during the pandemic to create a children's assessment where they get to rate themselves, they can see their superpower, what is my natural gift. And then the children's profile is amazing. Because it gives them a sense of, here's me, then it gives a section for parents, here's how you parent that child, mitigate the section to teachers. Here's how you teach that child given their style. And it's just super powerful. And then I wrote which bird are you, which is a fun, fun children's book teaches children about themselves, and also how to get along with people. So the books are just really designed to be fun and light and accessible, but at the same time powerful and transformative. So they're super fun to write. And I just love it. I love hearing when people talk about how it's changed their relationship with their spouse, or help them be a better leader. To me, that's amazing.

Marlana: Yeah, and I think so needed also, because I think in this time, where we are so easily connected to people, we have lost the ability to really communicate with one another. And by understanding each other a little bit better and ourselves a little bit better. I think that you are doing people a huge service by allowing us to know how to better communicate,

Merrick: I look at like I said, they great, strongest relationships, and that plays out wherever you are, whether it's at work, which is typically it's I find, finding that I'm typically in a corporate environment where we are brought into on training programs, and yet people come up to me during the break, and afterwards, and they share stories about their spouse and their children. Because they're immediately relating it to Well, yeah, I know, they hired you to talk about what kind of leader or a team member I am. But I just want to talk about my kids. And I think that is amazing, because they're applying it to their life. And that's what I want them to do, is to really apply it to the world around them.

Marlana: Love it. With that Merrick, I just have four final questions for you. First one is, what's the best piece of advice you're ever given? 

Merrick: Oh, the best piece, you know, being an author, I think the best piece of advice can work right before I wrote my first book. And a good friend of mine, who's that author, she said to me, here's the deal. It takes two people to write a book, one person to write it, and one person to tell you to stop writing it. But that is so true, because you can edit that book forever. But I think that just applies to so many aspects in life. Sometimes you just have to decide, okay, good enough is good enough. It's time to release this to the world. So I loved that. Because I felt like of course, I'll write the book. And then after I edited it, like 10 times, I'm like, Oh, yeah. Now I remember.

Marlana: Share with us one thing on your bucket list.

Merrick: You know, I've spoken in 47 states, I've traveled the country, I've traveled the world. I've got three to go. And so, if anybody is listening in Alaska, Mississippi, or Arkansas, I'm coming, I've got to hit them off and you can't get to 47 and not at all.

Marlana: Absolutely. When the toy companies finally get around to making an action figure view, what two accessories will it come with?

Merrick: Oh, you know, I love the idea of just being able to read somebody's personality instantly as a superpower. But almost like Wonder Woman's magic lasso where she can get you to tell the truth. I would like that, would be an amazing superpower to be able to meet somebody and instantly see their graph. I mean, the more you've learned this, the better you get. But I think that would be amazing. I think having living in the world of the birds, I think I have to go with wings, the ability to fly. I feel so connected to bird that I had this moment once where I went to a animal. It was a festival and there was this owl there. It was great horned owl. And the owl stopped there walked by and I looked at him and he's been his head. And he stared into my eyes for like two minutes. And the person who was a wildlife refuge that they brought them they were trying to raise money to help the animals, which was awesome. And he looked at me goes, you must have some connection with owls because I've never seen him do that. Sounds like Yeah, I kind of do.

Marlana: So you might have been thinking, you eagle parrot, you need me. 

Merrick: Yes! So I think flying would be a really cool superpower.

Marlana: And the last one, how do people find you?

Merrick: You can go to takeflightlearning.com, and you can learn all about the training programs or you can pick up books on Amazon, iTunes or audible. They're all there as well.

Marlana: Thank you so much, and thanks for being here. 

Merrick: Oh, thank you so much for having me.

Transcribed by Vision In Word